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? Re: Dieseling
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rcroller1
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Joined: 07 Jul 2009
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City, State: Tallahassee, FL

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: ? Re: Dieseling Reply with quote

I've been trying to run some lead through my new HW97KT. After about 200 shots it started diesleing really bad...I mean it sounded like a rimfire going off several times and smoked a lot! I know so little about this stuff..is this normal for a new gun? Did something go wrong? Do I need to worry about it or can anything get damaged? I wanted to get 1000 rounds through her before sending off for a tune and I'm only at 250 now. I did run some bore cleaner through her and that seemed to help some but any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Bob R.
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.177 HW97KT
.177 TX200HC
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anutha bubba
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 192
City, State: LP,LA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Dieseling Reply with quote

Most new springers will diesel some. If it continues or is very bad, I'd quit shooting, disassemble it and clean it up. Some say shooting heavier pellets for a while will cure it.

On the other hand there is no good reason to shoot it 1000 times before getting it tuned. A brand new, unshot airgun can be tuned as well as any and better than some. There may be damage and/or wear caused by shooting one that may have a defect, etc. A quality thorough tune is, in many ways, like a 'break in'.

Terry in LP
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Vulcanator
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Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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City, State: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same problem with my R9. It sounds though the piston seal has been nicked. This typicaaly occurs during assembly at the factory, the bottom lip of the piston seal snags against the cocking slot. I would get the gun tuned now, the tuner will end up replacing the seal. Although the gun is under warranty Beeman are no longer handling warrantly claims and there are those who have sent their guns to Beeman for warranty repair ended up waiting over threee months to get them fixed!
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creeper
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Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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City, State: Ravensdale, WA.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first 97K, which I bought 4 months ago and has about 2000 shots thru it, smoked a bit from the start and still does on occasion, but has never generated any additional noise... fairly quite actually. There is no noticable effect on velocity or accuracy.
My new 97K BL has about 400 shots thru it and has never smoked and runs similar velocity numbers as the first... so go figure.

I have a JM seal sitting on the shelf for when I have enough spare time to do a lube tune on the first gun. Probably do both guns at the same time, just so I can do a "stare and compare".

You might as well send it in for the tune... chances are some lube has migrated past the seal, perhaps via a seal nick Vulcanator mentioned, so it's doubtful it will cure itself any time soon.

Cheers,
C
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Parallax
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My R9 when brand new did the same thing for the first tin of pellets off and on. Sounded like a .22 rimfire, but now after 2k shots, no joke it literally shoots like a tuned rifle. The dieseling is long gone, the shot cycle is just a short "thump" just like my tuned HW50S is.

My HW97K on the other hand is almost at 1200 shots and I still get a faint smell of dieseling every few shots so it appears i'm getting the same deal you are with this, rcrolller. I think you and I both might have a nicked piston seal or something. These guns turn so incredible with a tune so there's no doubt I'll be sending mine off for a complete tune this year. If that's the route you have to save up for and do as I do, I really don't think you'll regret it once it's tuned. All reviewers say that the HW97K is smooth as glass and absolutely incredible after it's tuned. Smoother than an out of the box TX200 and my TX was(is?) the smoothest springer i've shot or owned, so that says a lot about a tuned HW97K. Wink
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rcroller1
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, guys. Guess I'll box it up and get it off for the tune. Was hoping to have it broken in a bit more but I guess the tuner can do whatever is needed. I think I'm going to go the Rob Hawkins route but PW is tempting...just not quick. I may see what his back log looks like before making a final decision. At least I've got the PW tuned HW50s to keep me entertained while I wait. Thanks for the advice!
Bob R.
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scott_RWS_48
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think you're jumping the gun here. It seems rather pre-mature to simply box it up, and spend more money before you've even broken the thing in.

My HW97 was a dieseling SOB until about 600-700 pellets and after that one hole groups at 30 yds is regular occurance without any effort. I would never consider sending mine out to have it tuned when it is new. Why not put a few miles on it until the dieseling stops? Then down the road have it torn down and tuned. At least this way you have something to compare to the tune. Maybe a tune is better but I find it hard to believe my HW97 is going to be any more accurate.

I emailed HW about thier over lubrication issues. This is the responce I got.
"Dear Mr. xxxx,

we refer to your e-mail of 18.01.2010 and have read with interest that you own
several of our air rifles.

As stated in our manual (see special recommendations) spring piston guns need
sometimes several 100 shoots to break in. A kind of "dieseling" can occur
during this session.

We wish you good shooting success.

Best regards

Hans-H. Weihrauch"

Their responce is a joke because 100 pellets is not going to do it, but it will pass, and there is very likely not a nick in your piston seal. Mine dieseled as bad as can be and settled down. My FPS with Beeman match wadcutters is 887 consistently.
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creeper
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took my wood stocked 97K apart yesterday for the first time... just out of curiosity. This gun has about 2000 shots thru it and still smoked a bit from the breach end (see previous post).

It had a kind of "light bodied" tar on the spring, something that might have been a moly paste at one time on the spring/guide ends, and a slightly excessive amount of grease with the consistency and color of JM Eurolube on the piston and seal... and on the front of the seal as well. There's the source of the smoking. Smile

The OE seal looked good with no nicks, distortion or contamination, and it was the same diameter, within .0005", as the new spare JM seal I have, so I reused it.
Cleaned and lubricated everything lightly with the appropriate JM lubes and put it back together.
No more smoking, velocity dropped off about 15fps to 855 (no surprise there considering the much more "fluid" grease that I removed and the current cold temps) with a small change in POI but no change in accuracy.
This particular rifle is superbly accurate, so seeing a noticeable improvement at short yardage would be tough.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Cool

Cheers,
C
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Parallax
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've made it to 1400 shots as of today in my HW97K BL and the dieseling has seemed to stop entirely in mine. It took longer in this rifle than it did in my R9(my R9 is so incredibly smooth shooting and accurate now after over 2k shots that it shoots exactly as smooth as my Rob Hawkins tuned HW50S, so i'm not even tempted to have it tuned until the spring breaks).

The HW97K also seems to be more accurate now than it's ever been, probably due to the fuels being burned off completely in the lube in front of the piston seal and an extremely tight shot spread now. My rifle isn't as powerful in .177 caliber as some others report of theirs because mine's shooting right at 845 fps with 7.9g JSB Express which is about 12.5 FPE, but that's ok by me because it's ridiculously accurate now. I was dropping starlings shot after shot with ease a few days ago from 50yrds out and on targets, it seems like it has finally reached the magical MOA groups at 50 yrds so i'm VERY happy with it!
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creeper
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parallax wrote:
My rifle isn't as powerful in .177 caliber as some others report of theirs because mine's shooting right at 845 fps with 7.9g JSB Express which is about 12.5 FPE, but that's ok by me because it's ridiculously accurate now.


That's a little light, but I wouldn't worry to much about it Parallax. Like you, I'll trade consistancy for velocity any day of the week. Cool
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